Interviewer: Ms. Christiane Amanpour , CNN Host
Interviewee: Mr. Tung Chee Hwa, Vice Chairman of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Council and Chairman of the China- United States Exchange Foundation
Transcript:
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour. And tonight, our focus is on the rising tensions between the world's second- and third- largest economies.
Outrage in China aimed at Japan, forcing companies like Honda, Nissan and Panasonic to close down across the country as angry Chinese protesters destroy Japanese factories and stores.
The two countries are facing off over a group of small islands in the East China Sea. The Japanese recently purchased them, even though China lays claim to them. And this comes at a particularly raw time. September 18th marks the anniversary of the Japanese invasion back in 1931, called National Humiliation Day in China.
The old wounds are fresh, but this is a 21st century dispute. China is building up its navy, might making its presence known in those regional waters and on Monday, Japan announced an agreement with the United States to deploy an advance missile defense system. This all comes as China is preparing for a once-in-a-decade leadership change.
Xi Jinping, the man slated to take over as China's president, mysteriously disappeared for a few weeks, but he's now reappeared and he's scheduled to meet with America's Defense secretary, Leon Panetta, in Beijing on Wednesday.
And all of this tension is playing into the once-every-four-year leadership contest right here in the United States, where China has become a political football and this week President Barack Obama filed an unfair trade complaint against China with the World Trade Organization. And his challenger, Mitt Romney, has also been talking tough against China.
As chairman of China United States Exchange Foundation, Tung Chee Hwa aims to bring the two countries closer and he has a close relationship, of course, and a unique perspective on the highest levels of the Chinese leadership. He joins me here in the studio in a moment.
Tung Chee Hwa was the first chief executive of Hong Kong after the handover to China from the U.K. He's now vice chair of the Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference and founding chairman of the China United States Exchange Foundation, which works to strengthen the relationship between the U.S. and China.
And a very good day to have you on with us, Mr. Tung. Thank you for being here.
TUNG CHEE HWA, VICE CHAIR, COMMITTEE OF THE CHINESE PEOPLE'S POLITICAL CONSULTATIVE CONFERENCE: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Let's go straight to these — what look like escalating tensions between China and Japan over those islands in the East China Sea. And I want to play you first what the U.S. Defense secretary has said about this situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEON PANETTA, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's in everybody's interest – it is in everybody's interest — for Japan and China to maintain good relations and to find a way to avoid further escalation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Are you concerned about what's going on? Do you believe it could erupt into a full-blown war or a conflict between the two?
TUNG: Well, I agree with what the Secretary of Defense was saying, how important it is for China and Japan to maintain a good relationship. Unfortunately, what Japan did really inflamed public opinion in China.
AMANPOUR: Do you think it could lead to worse than demonstrations in the street and destroying Japanese businesses?
TUNG: I think the issue really is this, that in the `70s, there was a peace treaty between Japan and China. And in that treaty, there was one item which they could not agree. So they agreed to disagree, which is about these islands.
AMANPOUR: So they shelved it.
TUNG: They shelved the agreement. They shelved the argument, but agreed that there would be status quo and there would be a joint effort to search for natural resources. But since that time, Japan has moved away from the status quo. Every now and then they will encroach (ph) on the situation and the latest act, of course, inflamed the public opinion a lot.
AMANPOUR: What do you think the U.S. role should be in this regard? Do you think there is a role for the U.S.?
TUNG: I think it is very important for U.S. to make it clear that, you know, this is an issue for the two countries to resolve, and the two countries need to resolve it.
AMANPOUR: Can they?
TUNG: I think a nudge towards Japan by America would help a great deal. And it is important.
AMANPOUR: Do you think it will be resolved?
TUNG: I hope cooler heads will prevail.
AMANPOUR: OK. You don't sound very hopeful, Mr. Tung.
TUNG: Well, it is a difficult issue. And I think Japan, it is not the first time. It's a number of steps they have taken, the Japanese have taken, to encroach (ph) on the situation, and I think it's — it needs to be looked at. The Japanese needs to come back to the table and say, OK.
AMANPOUR: What does the Chinese leadership say about this? Have you spoken to them about this?
TUNG: The Chinese leaderships are saying very clearly this has got to stop. Come back to the tables and see how we can work it through.
AMANPOUR: Talking about the United States and Secretary of Defense Panetta's visit to the region, this famous pivot of the U.S. to the Pacific, how do you see that? How does the Chinese leadership see it?
TUNG: Well, I would give you my perspective, that you said it's a pivot. The United States is coming back. My point is that the United States never left Asia, never left the Pacific. You have always been a Pacific power; you will continue to be a Pacific power.
And after the Second World War, well, we fought the Second World War together against the Japanese and after the Second World War, you provided a market and an umbrella to allow many of the Asian countries to recover from the ravages of the war. And that in the `70s, United States and China came together against the hegemony of the Soviet Union. So –
AMANPOUR: But the U.S. has always been –
TUNG: – (inaudible) — you were always there. You were always part of the Asia Pacific and from China's perspective, we welcome United States in Asia, playing a constructive role for the prosperity of Asia.
AMANPOUR: And does the majority of the Chinese leadership feel that way? Or are there different views?
TUNG: I think by and large people feel this way. But some of the (inaudible) activities and behaviors invite a degree of mistrust –
AMANPOUR: Such as?
TUNG: – which needs to be really looked at.
AMANPOUR: One? Which activity?
TUNG: Issues — you know, give example of this issue with Japan and the important thing for America to be really even-handed would highlight how, you know, improve this issue a great deal.
AMANPOUR: Let's get to the leadership change that's occurring right now.
Give me — what is the truth of what happened to Mr. Xi, Xi Jinping, who was out of sight for a couple of weeks, has now reappeared, what was the reason for his disappearance?
TUNG: Well, pressing America was (inaudible) or the speculations that
AMANPOUR: But what do you know?
TUNG: – he hurt himself in sports.
AMANPOUR: What sport?
TUNG: He's now recovered. And he's now back at work. And in China, you know, the health of senior leaders is for — is not a public issue, you know. And I suppose, as time goes on, as China becomes more and more open
and is also part of the world, all these things will eventually change.
AMANPOUR: So you think some of that secrecy and opaqueness surrounding leadership will change?
TUNG: Well, on this particular health issue –
AMANPOUR: What precisely was wrong with him? What –
TUNG: His back problem –
AMANPOUR: From?
TUNG: I believe it's swimming.
AMANPOUR: Huh. All of this hullabaloo and political intrigue just for that? Because they wouldn't say what it was.
TUNG: No, your speculation more than anyone else.
AMANPOUR: Well, nobody would say what it was.
Is there any doubt in your mind that Mr. Xi is going to be the next leader of China?
TUNG: I have no doubt whatsoever.
AMANPOUR: So he will be?
TUNG: Yes.
AMANPOUR: That's sorted? Do you know when the leadership contest will be, when it's called for?
TUNG: I believe it's some time in October.
AMANPOUR: In October?
TUNG: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Will the current president, Mr. Hu, will he retain leadership of the military?
TUNG: I'm not privy to this information based on past practice, he will retain (inaudible), the position for some times.
AMANPOUR: Let's talk about how China has become a bit of a football, as I said, in the U.S. presidential election. I want to play you just a couple of clips from what both President Obama and Mitt Romney have said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FORMER GOV. MITT ROMNEY, R-MASS., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is wrong. We're going to crack down on China when they manipulate their currency, when they steal our goods, when they don't protect our intellectual property. We're going to make sure that China understands we mean business, trade is going to work for us, not just for them.
(APPLAUSE)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can't stand up to China when all you've done is sent them our jobs. You can talk a good game but I like to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: After all that you've tried to do, bringing both countries together, do you — how do you assess this?
TUNG: Well, let me tell you this, you know, in election, there will be a lot of political rhetoric and we understand this and we live with this for a long time already. We take it as political rhetoric. But what I want to say to you is that in the 40 years since Mr. Nixon's visit, eight United States presidents from Nixon, Mr. Nixon to Mr. Obama, eight of them, and four generations of Chinese leaders work very, very hard to improve U.S.-China relations. And over these 40 years, if you look at it, you can see the relationship moving up, up, up, up all the time. There are occasional bounces up and down. But generally it is upward curve. So we should be — we should continue to work at it, because it is important. But we take the political rhetoric as they come.
AMANPOUR: All right. Mr. Tung, so much more to talk to you about; hopefully, you'll come on our program again. Thank you very much indeed for joining me.
TUNG: Not at all. Thank you. Thank you.
